Dieselpunk + Steampunk Culture
Airsoft and Dieselpunk
I am an airsofter and have started to bring my enjoyment for dieselpunk into it. I was wondering how others thought about dieselpunk + airsoft? I have seen people wear dieselpunk military-style gear. However, I have not seen people playing airsoft in dieselpunk gear. Actually, most airsofting I have seen is "modern". (Though, there are some WWII reenactors)
What would you think of dieselpunk style airsoft games? What about using World War Two era camouflage in dieselpunk?
What would you think of dieselpunk style airsoft games? What about using World War Two era camouflage in dieselpunk?
Tags: airsoft
Views: 66
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tome Wilson on -
I think it would be a blast.
Costuming would be a bitch though. Vintage WWII gear is getting to be a lot harder to come by, and repros are damned expensive for running around in.
I'm sure you could punk it up a bit and go a little more Mad Max than straight-ahead WWII. There are some legit websites that sell Russian military surplus at dirt cheap prices, so those might be cool to check out.
Other than the uniforms, what are you doing to make your scenarios "dieselpunk?" Is the setting different? Are there different types of weapons allowed?
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Permalink Reply by Lawren H.B. on -
I've found a couple websites that sell repro U.S. and German gear for reasonable prices. I have also found a site that sells some military surplus gear and repro gear. Their ww2 surplus is cheaper than their ww2 repro. (Most of the surplus gear was unissued - there are many ww2 era helmets there.)
I have most of my uniform together, minus a jacket and some pouchs. (My current ammo pouches are modern but I was planning to hide them under my jacket.)
As for the scenarios. Most scenarios I have build are rather generic in their objectives. I'm sure if I spend more time on them that they would become more "dieselpunk". I was planning on limiting the weapons that people could use.
They are: No airsoft weapons where the real version was designed after 1959. Unless they a bolt-action sniper rifle or pump shotgun with no pistol grip (fake / real wood for the sniper rifles only), full stock and no visible magazines. Also, if the versions of the gun manufactured before 1959 had wood parts, the airsoft replica must also have wood / fake wood parts. Scopes can be rifle site / hunting scope or Iron sites(no scope).
I made the date 1959, because it opens the game up to more players who are not required to buy new equipment to play. Some of the guns that are more "modern" buy were designed before 1959;
M16A1: A2 allowed for game also, not much look difference.
AK-47: although designed between 1944 and 1946, the AK-47 Is still one of the worlds most popular guns today and can be more related to in the modern times. -Ak-74 w/ wood parts allowed to be used in my rules also.
G3: This gun was designed in 1957 and is one of the few "Designated Marksman Rifles*" that would be included inside the date requirements. (m14 is the other one).
!!!: AK-47 and M16 are some of the most common airsoft guns that people use.
I am still not sure how teams would be created. Traditionally, airsoft teams have been marked by colored tape wrapped around the players upper right sleeve. Or by uniform / camo styles. (Ie: Woodland camo vs. Tigerstripe.)
I have compiled a list of over 50 airsoft replicas that I have found around the internet that would fit these rules. (including pistols) If you or others would like, I will post the list. (All the guns are between $20 and $500 with one, $1000 machine gun.) I also have a list of some camo patterns used during WWII, if players wanted to use them in their costumes.
*"Designated Marksman Rifle" in airsoft refers to any Automatic Electric Gun that is designed to act as a sniper rifle. These guns may not exceed 400 feet-per-second. Bolt-action airsoft sniper rifles may reach 550 FPS and are not electric powered.
Tome Wilson said:I think it would be a blast.
Costuming would be a bitch though. Vintage WWII gear is getting to be a lot harder to come by, and repros are damned expensive for running around in.
I'm sure you could punk it up a bit and go a little more Mad Max than straight-ahead WWII. There are some legit websites that sell Russian military surplus at dirt cheap prices, so those might be cool to check out.
Other than the uniforms, what are you doing to make your scenarios "dieselpunk?" Is the setting different? Are there different types of weapons allowed?
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Permalink Reply by Lawren H.B. on
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Edit: I typed those rules without consulting my notebook to see what I had actually written. I will spend tonight compiling and editing the rules and will post a better version tomorrow. (The rules I typed below are mostly correct.)
When I post them, I would like feedback. Most of my friends who I explain rules to just say "ok" and agree with me. I'd rather have people disagree with me so the rules can be made better.
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Permalink Reply by Tome Wilson on
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You might find some inspiration in The Zoot Shooters.
http://www.dieselpunks.org/forum/topics/zoot-shooters
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From their website:
American Zoot Shooters Association is bringing back the Roaring Twenties! AZSA is a multi-gun sport in which participants dress in 1920s-1930s costumes and compete against the clock engaging targets for the best possible score. Zoot Shooters must use firearms that are correct for the time surrounding Prohibition. Costumes may be of any character type reflecting the era (i.e. gangster, law enforcement, flapper, bootlegger, politician, etc.).
The predominant AZSA guns are Thompsons and 1911 pistols but other firearms may be considered. Though many shooters may already own a 1911 type pistol, most probably do not own a Thompson sub-machine gun. Fortunately, Kahr/Auto-Ordnance is reproducing high quality semi-automatic Tommy Guns that do not require special permits. If you are lucky (or wealthy) enough to own a legally registered, full-auto Tommy by all means use it providing the host range will allow it!
The competitions have multiple stages referred to as Capers. Each Caper has a specific course of direction in which the shooter must safely engage targets in the quickest amount of time. Capers may reflect a moment in history, a scene from a movie or part of a story that gives a feeling of going back to a time when gangsters made Tommy Guns roar! Most importantly participants must be safe, maintain good sportsmanship and have fun.
American Zoot Shooters Association invites anyone from all walks of life to come out and enjoy our sport. Many fascinating aspects of American history took place during the 1920s-1930s. If you like guns, gangster movies, Jazz music, antique cars, swing dancing, murder mystery parties or having fun, then AZSA is for you! Everyone is encouraged to use their imagination and get involved. Please check this website often because there may be Capers coming to your town soon.
American Zoot Shooters Association’s founders are not historians; please excuse any historical inaccuracies. Furthermore, AZSA does not condone criminals and gangsters or their activities. Shooting is a potentially dangerous sport and must be treated as such. All shooters must be instructed in safe gun handling before they are permitted to participate in an AZSA competition.
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Permalink Reply by Lawren H.B. on
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Thats interesting. I hadn't thought about people in suits playing. I've only thought of people using military-type uniforms. I'd be a bit cautious if I were to play in a suit. It would probably get pretty dirty.
However, if there were to be factions. One of that style would be awesome.
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Permalink Reply by Lawren H.B. on
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Sorry that I keep double posting.
I was working on the rules some more and I hate doing it by myself. How would you feel if I post a few of the rules or about a specific topic and I get feedback?
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Permalink Reply by Tome Wilson on
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Go for it.
I have no airsoft experience, but I can give you suggestions regarding the flavor of the game
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Permalink Reply by Lawren H.B. on
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The questions I will be asking will be less about how a game will be conducted and more about what people can / can't use or wear.
However, because I realize that most people don't know much about airsoft on this site, I will give a small background and safety talk before asking the questions.
Airsoft is a sport using full scale, and usually full weight replica firearms that shoot plastic BBs. Players divide into different teams and carry out skirmishes, sometimes there are objectives. BBs are weighted between .12 grams and .43 grams (.12, .20, .25, .28, .30, .36, .43). .20 are the most popular weight of BBs. There are two sizes of BB, .6mm and .8mm - .6 are most commonly used and I will only be talking about them. There are also two types of BBs, regular and biodegradable ("bio ammo"). Most BB weights come in both types. (Some fields require bio BBs.)
More injuries happen as a result of not following safety requirements than from other players. ALWAYS wear shooting glasses or goggles that can withstand the impact of a BB. Most mask / goggle sets labeled "airsoft" or "piantball" are good enough. Some players will scarves, masks (attached to goggles sometimes.) balaclavas, or mouth guards to protect their lower face. Some masks are made from a wire mesh, before you get these. Make sure that they can withstand a BB hit at close range - some cannot. The best eye protection will seal around your eyes. If you wear prescription glasses (like me) the cheapest thing to do is to get goggles that will fit over your glasses. Some people will remove their glasses to play if their vision is not that bad. Foot wear is also important. You want to wear shoes you feel comfortable in, airsoft is a physically demanding sport and you will be running on different terrain. (Also, it is a good idea to wear boots that provide ankle support. I wear m1938 leggings and light hiking shoes - the leggings add ankle support for me. - Its a cheaper method that some boots.) Water is the last thing you can do to prepare yourself. Many players do not bring water with them to games and suffer from heat exhaustion. Bring a hydration pack or water bottle / canteen with you to a game and keep yourself hydrated and healthy. You also want to keep players safe you can best do this by following the gun FPS (feet per second) maximums and observe shooting distances. The following is taken from the airsoft forum "Airsoft Pacific": Standard FPS Limits:
Chronographs are used before games to test all replicas present. Any replicas that test too high will not be allowed in play. No exceptions will be made, please research upgrades and how they effect your replica before purchasing or installing them. All of the following velocity limits are with .2g BBs.
Standard 6mm BBs Fully/Semi Automatics - 400 fps (1.5j)
CQB/Indoor - All under 330 fps (1j)
Sniper Rifles (Bolt Action ONLY) - 550 FPS (2.8j)
*Limits Measured with .20g BB
(note: I do not own a chronograph, there are other ways to test a guns FPS than a chronograph.)
These are very standard rules. To qualify as a sniper, a player should be experienced with other guns first. Some fields or groups require snipers to be over the age or 18 as well. Minimum shooting range for a CQB gun is between 5 and 10 feet and a field gun is 10-20 feet. (CQB guns can be used in "field" games.) It is also good practice to switch your replica into "semi auto" when approaching the minimum shooting range. If you are within the minimum shooting range, point your gun at a player and yell "safety kill" or tap them of the shoulder with your pistol or rubber knife and say "Safety kill". Or, back out of the minimum range and shoot.
Finally, to keep yourself safe from the public, NEVER, EVER brandish your gun in public and ALWAYS transport your gun with the 1/4"+ orange flash hider on the front. Get a gun bag, duffel bag or unmarked box to transport your guns in. (I take my gear in a duffel bag and my guns in a gun bag.) Also, get permission to play in an area before you play there. If it is a state park, get the permission in writing and have it at the field. Most cities do not allow people to play airsoft in public parks and worried people usually call the police (and rightly so.) about people playing airsoft in public areas. There have been times when police have drawn guns on airsofters. When a police officer (or fireman, as it has been a couple times) or anyone not aware of the game appears on the field, do the following: (Also taken from Airsoft Pacific)
BLIND MAN
This is called whenever a non-player enters the battlefield, or when a player enters the battlefield without eye protection. All players are expected to echo blind man so that everyone on the field hears it, and upon hearing it each player is expected to sit down and wait until "Game on" is called to continue the game. If necessary, game coordinators will explain the game to the non-participants.
IF LOCAL POLICE ENTER THE FIELD
This is a potentially dangerous situation, and is treated as if they don't know we are playing a game. All players are expected to walk to the deadpool in plain sight, either with their guns over their head or leaving their guns in the field. Upon reaching the deadpool each player is to place his replica with his gear and gather in a group at least 20 feet from the gear. This is to provide safety by comforting the officers by removing any equipment that appears threatening to them. Gameplay is not commenced until we explain the situation and are allowed to continue.
Ok, that is my safety talk. I'll post the questions I'd have after this post, as it is so long. (If you have any questions about the above, please ask.)
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Permalink Reply by Lawren H.B. on
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So, for questions about rules:
1. Goggles / glasses: In WW2 airsoft reenactments that I have seen, players will wear shooting glasses / "modern" goggles and vintage or reproduction WW2 goggles. (so really anything.) Should this be the same for dieselpunk-style airsofting, or should players have to wear "period" goggles?
2. I know of only 1 tactical vest in WW2 (will provide pictures upon request). However, most cheap airsoft gear is modern-style tactical vests, chest rigs, or plate carriers (Usually using MOLLE webbing.). I was thinking that the rule would allow players to use chest rigs (as they have an "older" look to them) and not plate carriers or tactical vests allowed. (Unless the WW2 or other "period" vest.) Because that now removes over half of the usable platforms for carrying gear. Any harness set or just a belt + suspenders could be used to hold ammunition. Also, because they are so readily available, MOLLE magazine pouches should be allowed to be used (put on belts easily.) Thoughts?
I'm thinking of making rules where players may use more modern gear so that one does not have to spend all their money to play this. (As old / reproduction magazine pouches and other gear can cost a lot.)
3. Factions / uniforms: Should factions be set up, or should players get into groups and multiple groups form a team, then teams would wear colored tape on their arms. Some airsoft games require teams to wear different uniforms to distinguish teams. However, they usually do this with camo styles / colors. I don't think this is vary usable in dieselpunk, but I would like to know what others think.
Dieselpunk style uniforms are expensive sometimes or not practical to fight in (In the case of mine, my jacket is way too restricting. [I wanna get an Ike Jacket to replace my current jacket]) What if players were allowed to play wearing solid-colored BDUs. They are durable and don't really stand out as clothes of any era. (at least to me.)
Finally, shoes / boots; as I said above, you should wear shoes that you are comfortable in and able to run around in. (Most airsofting is done in forests or fields.) My dieselpunk shoes are different from my airsofting shoes because my costume shoes are not good for running in. Should players have the option to wear newer-looking shoes. (not bright white tennis shoes, but modern combat boots or hiking shoes / boots rather than everyone being required to wear jackboots, paratrooper boots, boondockers, ect.) [I am not opposed to getting a pair of more dieselpunk-looking shoes for airsoft. But they are as expensive as guns and not everyone can afford so much.]
4. (Ok, last question for now). As I said in previous posts, there should be limits on what type of guns people can use. (please leave thoughts on this also.) But I Was looking around at shotguns online and thinking that not everyone can buy so much for airsoft, especially people who just want to try it out. I was thinking that perhaps any type of shotgun should be allowed to be used. As long as its shell loaded, and spring powered - pump action (Some are gas powered I think). Thoughts?
Sorry for all the typing today. I've written a lot over the past year and am happy people are now wanting to hear about it and discuss it.
I might not be as clear as I think I am. Feel free to ask for clarification on anything I have typed.
(I will explain terms that I use to the best of my ability. Google / wikipedia are your best friends and will do it better than me.)
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Permalink Reply by Tome Wilson on
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Quick question.
I've only been hit with spring-loaded airsoft BBs and you could barely feel them.
What's it like to be hit with a real airsoft gun through regular clothing?
(in other words, how much armor do you really need?)
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Permalink Reply by Lawren H.B. on
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Open skin hit by BBs can leave welts. I have actually only been hit with BBs in the chest, through my vest. It felt like someone was poking me. If I were not wearing my vest and just my shirt, I'd imagine it would sting a little bit, but not leave welts. (Unless I were shot from really close range.) This is also why it is a good idea to wear neck / mouth protection.
Also, I forgot to say in the safety: Snipers have a much greater minimum range requirement than other guns due to their high FPS.
When wearing armor, such as a helmet, you do not feel BBs. I have been told that you will hear them. (I only use armor on my knees and have not been hit there.)
Tome Wilson said:Quick question.
I've only been hit with spring-loaded airsoft BBs and you could barely feel them.
What's it like to be hit with a real airsoft gun through regular clothing?
(in other words, how much armor do you really need?)
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Permalink Reply by Lawren H.B. on
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Thanks to my own inattention to safety, I have a better answer to what an airsoft BB feels like. At about noon today, I was prepping my airsoft guns for some shooting practice. I had just filled my pistol magazine, chambered one BB (so I could hold 25+1 BBs in the gun) without enabling the safety, I picked up the gun with my right hand, pointed it at my left wrist, preparing to remove the magazine to a load the last BB. On accident, when I picked up the gun, I pulled the trigger and shot a BB into my left wrist from less than 6 inches away. The pistol in question shoots around 280 FPS, the BB stung and made me swear (I did not expect to shoot myself). It left a welt that will be gone by tomorrow. This is a lesson in gun safety; always make sure the safety is on when you don't want to shoot.
So, in short. They don't hurt too bad if you are wearing clothes and people follow the minimum engagement rules. (BBs at 400+ FPS can draw blood if person being shot is under 5 feet away.) The welt did not hurt after the BB hit my wrist. It is now about 12 hours after the fact and there is a little red dot on my wrist, nothing noticeable. If I had been shot through my shirt, I doubt there would still be a mark.
I hope that personal experience has helped answer your question. (I do not recommend doing what I did)
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