Dieselpunks

Dieselpunk + Steampunk Culture

Topic for clarification:

Dieselpunk is a sub-genre of the pop surrealist art movement which combines the aesthetics of the interbellum period through World War II (1918 - 1946) with postmodern technology and sensibilities.

Agree?  Disagree?

Tags: dieselpunk

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I agree.
I'd add something about it being heavily steeped in personal fantasy, because no one's dieselpunk era is identical to anyone else's.
I agree. While this can be a baseline for dieselpunk, dieselpunk is very much like steampunk in that "it is what you want it to be." As evidenced by the recent discussion over the movie Sin City: I and others think it is very much dieselpunk, while Atterton and others think it is not dieselpunk at all. And Larry and I thinking it's inspiration could extend into the early 50s, while Tome and Athenaprime would end it at 1945.

Damien Hewitt said:
I'd add something about it being heavily steeped in personal fantasy, because no one's dieselpunk era is identical to anyone else's.
I'm trying to boil it down to its barest essence.

If steampunk can be defined as "Victorian science fiction," then I'm sure we can define the core of dieselpunk in less than 1000 words.
Well then Interbellum and WWII era works, for the most part, if you're wanting the bare minimum.

Tome Wilson said:
I'm trying to boil it down to its barest essence.

If steampunk can be defined as "Victorian science fiction," then I'm sure we can define the core of dieselpunk in less than 1000 words.
my two cents: where does it end? its a good call, could be when the atomic era started (1945) or, aesthetically wts: ise when the atomic era/mid century modern started (53 or 54).
Humberto
I'd go for the middle of the fifties, after all a super-bomb is still dieselpunk :)

humberto huerta ray said:
my two cents: where does it end? its a good call, could be when the atomic era started (1945) or, aesthetically wts: ise when the atomic era/mid century modern started (53 or 54).
Humberto
Tome,
Now that I've read this a little closer, some more detailed feedback.

There seems to be a many of us here that place the cut-off to be early 1950's while others don't. As Jonny pointed out I support early 50's. My argument being that there was little cultural change until then. Ever noticed how hard it is to tell the difference between a movie made in the 40s from one made in early 50s? Especially in they're portrayal of dress, music and cars? Maybe this could read "interbellum period through World War II and ending before or at the early 1950s."

Help me better understand why you say it's a sub-genre of the "pop surrealist art movement." I find that phrase interesting but I'm not sure I completely understand it.

If we come to an agreement here I'll go back in and update the Wiktionary with a new definition.
Hi Larry,

Here are two good links to help you understand a bit more about pop surrealism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowbrow_%28art_movement%29

http://books.google.com/books?id=gkMr1b7YNh4C&printsec=frontcov...

As for ending the influences of dieselpunk in 1946, here is my reasoning.

After the atomic bombs were detonated over Japan, the zeitgeist of Western culture changed dramatically.

We didn't cement world peace. We introduced a new era of warfare and a worldwide fear of "the bomb." Yes, we had won our war, but the terror of the atom was unleashed in the process. Diesel power was no longer king of technology. Atomic power was the new leader.

When the men returned home from the front, culture, technology, and engineering changed dramatically. Thanks to the reality of war, we pushed past the utopian ideal of a single world culture into the "every man for himself" mindset where our returning war heros were entitled to a job, a home, and 2.5 children. As a culture, we stopped dreaming about the future and started grabbing for what we thought we deserved.

The 1950s brought us atomic power, cold wars fought with intimidation instead of men, boxy automobiles, suburbia, greasers, and rock and roll. I'm not knocking this era, I'm just drawing a line to define the boundaries of dieselpunk.

When atomic power replaced diesel power, it's hard to justify that time period being included in the "diesel" era.

What do you think?
Tome,
On the pop surrealism you've convinced me. I like it and it should be part of the definition.

On the issue of cut-off, I'm sorry but I'm still not convinced. For the average American the Atomic Bomb was considered nothing more than just one more weapon in America's arsenal. They really didn't comprehend the magnitude of the power. While the Cold War was getting going in the late 40's and early 50s most Americans were interested in having babies and starting careers.

Most importantly, fashion, music, culture, car design, and other defining elements of decodence continued until around 1953 or 1954. In my opinion, atomicpunk would begin there and go until the early 1960s with the assassination of JFK. In fact, historians have considered the death of JFK as a cultural landmark between the culture of the 50s and what we think of with the 60s. I've noticed that cultural change seems to be off by about 2 - 3 years from the calender for any decade to the next regardless of what era we're discussing.

I think that you and I may have to agree to disagree on this detail, my friend. But that's cool. There's nothing wrong with healthy disagreement. Viva la difference!

I do think that since the community is so split on the ending of the era that somehow it should be written into the definition, which takes me back to my earlier recommendation of "interbellum period through World War II and ending before or at the early 1950s." This would allow for both schools of thought. But I'm not particular on the wording.
I can roll with that. Go for it, Larry.
I like to think of the era as being between the dates of the 23rd of March, 1919 and the 6th of August, 1945.

The first is the date that Fascism was created as a political ideology (the day that Mussolini created his Fasci d'Italia in Milan) and the second is the date the first atomic bomb was dropped.

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