Dieselpunks

Dieselpunk + Steampunk Culture

For some reason I don't see where I posted about the recent work I've done on the Wikipedia project. I've written a sub-page that I need everyone who's interested to review and give me feedback on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Larry442010/Dieselpunk

I need feedback such as grammar and spelling, facts (such as dates and names), and references. The biggest concern I have are having references. I can't just say something and reference a conversation posted here or at the Smoking Lounge. Dieselpunk has a reputation for not being "notable." There are gaps in the article that I really need to be able to fill if possible.

Be aware I may not use all feedback is given. I do have to decide what fits and what doesn't. If your suggestion isn't used then if Wiki allows it to be posted then you can register and go into and edit like anyone else can.

You will see an example image on the right of the page. Stefan has been so kind as to agree at my request to make one of his fantastic creations to insert there.

Please, I need feedback. After everyone has looked it over and I've made whatever changes are needed then I will send it to the Wiki staff.  

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Ok, folks. Thanks to Tome's feedback I've dramatically reworked the Wiki article. It's a blend of his work and mine. I expect this will be the last major change.

Please, I very much need everyone interested to read the page and post their thoughts. Very soon here I'm going to present this to the Wiki powers that be to try to get it posted as an official article.
I love the heavy referencing, and I think you're on the right track. As of now I can't think of anything else to add, so I would totally support the current article.
Thanks Hayen. All feedback, both positive and negative, is useful and needed.

Hayen Mill said:
I love the heavy referencing, and I think you're on the right track. As of now I can't think of anything else to add, so I would totally support the current article.
Wow! Great job! Well written and a great overview of the culture, history, and aestetic!

I think it's a winner. Thank you for doing this, Larry!

I have no major changes, just a few Minor points:

* "when diesel-based locomotion was the main technological focus of Western culture"
--> I'd change it to "petroleum-based" or " internal combustion based" as only a relatively small portion of technological focus, most engines being standard gasoline at the time.

* Minor caution: The "Dieselpunk as a Subculture" section, while great IMO, may get in trouble with moderators or invoke an edit war as "advertisements for websites" or some other damn-fool thing.

* Grammar: "as seen in such dystopian movies such as Mad Max"
--> "such" appears twice in this sentance. Need to strike one of them.

* "combines the troupes, character stereotypes, and settings of"
--> "troupes" should probably be "tropes", and "archetypes" is probably a better term than "stereotypes".
I went in and made some minor punctuation changes for readability. If you don't mind, I'll go through and clean up grammar and punctuation throughout. Also the website names that you mention should probably be italicized, as I did with Captain Spectre.

I set off the themes section as a subset of the fiction section...

I'm going to echo what Capn Tony said, especially about the "Dieselpunk as a Subculture" section, it probably needs to be rewritten. (I would have taken the liberty but want your permission first...).

I'd also like to go through with your permission and check all of your references for "proper" wiki reference formatting. We want this to be as clean and polished as possible before it gets posted.

Keep in mind that if it passes deletion review - and it will likely end up there - the finished product will probably look nothing like your current version. (The Dr. Steel page right now looks very little like the original one that was posted before it went through deletion review...) But this is a very good first effort, in my opinion.

Cap'n Tony said:
Wow! Great job! Well written and a great overview of the culture, history, and aestetic!
I think it's a winner. Thank you for doing this, Larry! I have no major changes, just a few Minor points: * "when diesel-based locomotion was the main technological focus of Western culture"
--> I'd change it to "petroleum-based" or " internal combustion based" as only a relatively small portion of technological focus, most engines being standard gasoline at the time.

* Minor caution: The "Dieselpunk as a Subculture" section, while great IMO, may get in trouble with moderators or invoke an edit war as "advertisements for websites" or some other damn-fool thing.

* Grammar: "as seen in such dystopian movies such as Mad Max"
--> "such" appears twice in this sentance. Need to strike one of them.

* "combines the troupes, character stereotypes, and settings of"
--> "troupes" should probably be "tropes", and "archetypes" is probably a better term than "stereotypes".
Jonny,
I think it would be great for you to go in there and work on it. Feel free to follow through with your recommendations. I have a Word doc original on my hard drive so don't worry about something being lost. See what you can do and then we can all discuss it further.

Oh, yes, I'm aware that if it get's accepted then control is out of my hands but that's the nature of Wiki. I would just like to have a full-fledged article rather than just a paragraph of "Cyberpunk Derivative." That's what matters most.

Jonny B. Goode said:
I went in and made some minor punctuation changes for readability. If you don't mind, I'll go through and clean up grammar and punctuation throughout. Also the website names that you mention should probably be italicized, as I did with Captain Spectre.

I set off the themes section as a subset of the fiction section...

I'm going to echo what Capn Tony said, especially about the "Dieselpunk as a Subculture" section, it probably needs to be rewritten. (I would have taken the liberty but want your permission first...).

I'd also like to go through with your permission and check all of your references for "proper" wiki reference formatting. We want this to be as clean and polished as possible before it gets posted.

Keep in mind that if it passes deletion review - and it will likely end up there - the finished product will probably look nothing like your current version. (The Dr. Steel page right now looks very little like the original one that was posted before it went through deletion review...) But this is a very good first effort, in my opinion.

Cap'n Tony said:
Wow! Great job! Well written and a great overview of the culture, history, and aestetic!
I think it's a winner. Thank you for doing this, Larry! I have no major changes, just a few Minor points: * "when diesel-based locomotion was the main technological focus of Western culture"
--> I'd change it to "petroleum-based" or " internal combustion based" as only a relatively small portion of technological focus, most engines being standard gasoline at the time.

* Minor caution: The "Dieselpunk as a Subculture" section, while great IMO, may get in trouble with moderators or invoke an edit war as "advertisements for websites" or some other damn-fool thing.

* Grammar: "as seen in such dystopian movies such as Mad Max"
--> "such" appears twice in this sentance. Need to strike one of them.

* "combines the troupes, character stereotypes, and settings of"
--> "troupes" should probably be "tropes", and "archetypes" is probably a better term than "stereotypes".
Follow up.

I've been thinking. If Jonny isn't able to dramatically rewrite the Subculture part it might need to be removed altogether. We cover much of the same in the External Links. I think Cap'n hit on an important point.

Jonny B. Goode said:

I'm going to echo what Capn Tony said, especially about the "Dieselpunk as a Subculture" section, it probably needs to be rewritten. (I would have taken the liberty but want your permission first...).

There's some references listed on my Wikipedia user page that you might be able to use. Good luck!
I did some stylistic cleanups last night, and rewrote the subculture section somewhat. I'm going to go through all of the refs this weekend and make them wikipedia format.

One thing I can see right off is that this page is going to need a LOT more refs. It's got a lot right now, and that's good, but there are a lot of statements that are made that have no support. The wikipedia moderators are going to be really, really anal about that. What do I mean by a lot more? Every time you say something, you have to have a reference to back it up. You say "Batman" is a dieselpunk movie? Provide a reference somewhere that says that. Or says something similar. (And usually blogs don't count. Unless they're blogs of someone who is an authority.) Any and every statement that you make that purports to be a fact that doesn't have a reference to back it up is going to be challenged. This is probably going to take someone with datamining skills to scour the internet for references.
Jonny, I looked at the Subculture section but I didn't see any changes. Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I should log out and log back in. Or maybe I need to clear my cache in my computer.

I agree about your concern on references. It is indeed a problem that there simply aren't any hard copy references that specifically addresses dieselpunk, except the Gatehouse Gazette, and that concerns me greatly about it being approved. It's very much an online phenomenon at this point. One item, Batman. I do quote The Gatehouse Gazette, Issue 1, page 7 as a reference. That along with the biography about Tim Burton and the making of Batman.

Jonny B. Goode said:
I did some stylistic cleanups last night, and rewrote the subculture section somewhat. I'm going to go through all of the refs this weekend and make them wikipedia format.

One thing I can see right off is that this page is going to need a LOT more refs. It's got a lot right now, and that's good, but there are a lot of statements that are made that have no support. The wikipedia moderators are going to be really, really anal about that. What do I mean by a lot more? Every time you say something, you have to have a reference to back it up. You say "Batman" is a dieselpunk movie? Provide a reference somewhere that says that. Or says something similar. (And usually blogs don't count. Unless they're blogs of someone who is an authority.) Any and every statement that you make that purports to be a fact that doesn't have a reference to back it up is going to be challenged. This is probably going to take someone with datamining skills to scour the internet for references.
Yea I know, that was just fresh in my head as I typed that.

A section you might add: there are a LOT of video games that are diesel in nature, it seems to be a real big deal these days in the video game world Everything from Fallout 3 and Bioshock to Wolfenstein to World of Warcraft. There are also quite a number of Anime titles that are dieselpunkish.

Larry said:
Jonny, I looked at the Subculture section but I didn't see any changes. Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I should log out and log back in. Or maybe I need to clear my cache in my computer.

I agree about your concern on references. It is indeed a problem that there simply aren't any hard copy references that specifically addresses dieselpunk, except the Gatehouse Gazette, and that concerns me greatly about it being approved. It's very much an online phenomenon at this point. One item, Batman. I do quote The Gatehouse Gazette, Issue 1, page 7 as a reference. That along with the biography about Tim Burton and the making of Batman.

Jonny B. Goode said:
I did some stylistic cleanups last night, and rewrote the subculture section somewhat. I'm going to go through all of the refs this weekend and make them wikipedia format.

One thing I can see right off is that this page is going to need a LOT more refs. It's got a lot right now, and that's good, but there are a lot of statements that are made that have no support. The wikipedia moderators are going to be really, really anal about that. What do I mean by a lot more? Every time you say something, you have to have a reference to back it up. You say "Batman" is a dieselpunk movie? Provide a reference somewhere that says that. Or says something similar. (And usually blogs don't count. Unless they're blogs of someone who is an authority.) Any and every statement that you make that purports to be a fact that doesn't have a reference to back it up is going to be challenged. This is probably going to take someone with datamining skills to scour the internet for references.
I changed the section from:

A person defined as a dieselpunk draws inspiration and entertainment from the aesthetics of the diesel era to achieve independence from contemporary aesthetics by blending the literature, artwork, fashion, grooming styles, modes of personal transportation, music, and technology of the diesel era with contemporary sensibilities. Part of dieselpunk's postmodern nature can be seen in the important role that the internet as a tool of international communication plays in its development. There are two prominent dieselpunk online communities at the time of this article, which are Dieselpunks [8] and The Gatehouse's Smoking Lounge.[9]

In addition to the dieselpunk forums there are a growing number of online magazines dedicated to the genre including The Flying Fortress [10], Some Stuff Like That There [11], Dizelpanki [12] and several blogs which are simply titled Dieselpunk [13] [14]. Another active online magazine covering the dieselpunk movement is Vintage Future: Dieselpunk [15], which describes itself as "Retro-futuristic resources from the golden era."


While there are many web sites dedicated to the history of the diesel era there are few sites dedicated to topics that tie into dieselpunk. One such website of note is RetroTimes Production [16], which is an independent film production company dedicated to creating documentaries about "retro living, retro design, and retro style." Another website considered to be dieselpunk is Captain Spectre and The Lightning Legion which is an online comic written and drawn in the classic serial pulp fiction style of the diesel era. [17]

to:

A person defined as a dieselpunk draws inspiration and entertainment from the aesthetics of the diesel era to achieve independence from contemporary aesthetics by blending the literature, artwork, fashion, grooming styles, modes of personal transportation, music, and technology of the diesel era with contemporary sensibilities.

Part of dieselpunk's postmodern nature can be seen in the important role that the internet as a tool of international communication plays in its development. In addition to two prominent dieselpunk online communities, Dieselpunks[8] and The Gatehouse's "Smoking Lounge",[9] there are a growing number of online magazines dedicated to the genre including The Flying Fortress,[10] Some Stuff Like That There,[11] Dizelpanki[12] and several blogs which are simply titled "Dieselpunk".[13][14] Another active online magazine covering the dieselpunk movement is Vintage Future: Dieselpunk,[15] which describes itself as "Retro-futuristic resources from the golden era."

While there are many web sites dedicated to the history of the diesel era there are few sites dedicated to topics that tie into dieselpunk. One such website of note is RetroTimes Production,[16] which is an independent film production company dedicated to creating documentaries about "retro living, retro design, and retro style." Another website considered to be dieselpunk is Captain Spectre and The Lightning Legion, which is an online comic written and drawn in the classic serial pulp fiction style of the diesel era.[17]

Not a big change, but I thought it read better.

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