Dieselpunks

Dieselpunk + Steampunk Culture

For some reason I don't see where I posted about the recent work I've done on the Wikipedia project. I've written a sub-page that I need everyone who's interested to review and give me feedback on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Larry442010/Dieselpunk

I need feedback such as grammar and spelling, facts (such as dates and names), and references. The biggest concern I have are having references. I can't just say something and reference a conversation posted here or at the Smoking Lounge. Dieselpunk has a reputation for not being "notable." There are gaps in the article that I really need to be able to fill if possible.

Be aware I may not use all feedback is given. I do have to decide what fits and what doesn't. If your suggestion isn't used then if Wiki allows it to be posted then you can register and go into and edit like anyone else can.

You will see an example image on the right of the page. Stefan has been so kind as to agree at my request to make one of his fantastic creations to insert there.

Please, I need feedback. After everyone has looked it over and I've made whatever changes are needed then I will send it to the Wiki staff.  

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I'm still scouring the internet for references, but they're hard to come by. Unless we could get it generally established and accepted that retro-futurist neo-noir, new deco and some other terms are basically the same thing. They all tie in, but it's hard to show it.

Hayen Mill said:
"Whereas steampunk derives from a genre of literature, dieselpunk derives from a genre of art. Some of us came from the steampunk community - but others of us came from the swingpunks and the swing revival (and it's only natural to bring our music with us!), and others of us straight from the art and design community. "

Well, i think that many of the artists came towards dieselpunk because it was already established as a sub-genre of speculative retro-futurist fiction, not the other way around. It would be interesting to see which actually came first, the literature or the music/visual arts/etc. There's surely references somewhere in the internet about this.
In trying to establish dieselpunk as part of the lowbrow art genre, I did come across one artist who described herself exactly that way. Don't know if it would count as a reference or not, though. http://www.zhibit.org/jessicavanhulle
I'm brain dead on how to argue for this. Maybe because so much of it was mine. I'm really going to need assistance. :(
I do think that even if it gets completely cancelled on Wikipedia, it should be archived in it's entirety here on Dieselpunks.org, for the benefit of people who want to know what dieselpunks are all about.

Larry said:
I'm brain dead on how to argue for this. Maybe because so much of it was mine. I'm really going to need assistance. :(

It's going to be an uphill fight but I'll help out as best I can. I've been scouring the web looking for references to dieselpunk and trying to tie it in more securely with lowbrow art, etc. It seems that everyone in the lowbrow art community and the dieselpunk community both just took it as a "given"... but that makes it hard to reference. (I also think it's somewhat unfortunate that we have the -punk moniker, because no matter what we do, because of that we're going to always be thought of as steampunk's poor stepchild.

To our credit though, this version does have a lot more references than most articles that are original postings have (certainly a lot more than the Piecraft article - which had none).
I've downloaded the page as a back up. I can mirror it on my User Page. We can then link to that if we want.

Jonny B. Goode said:
I do think that even if it gets completely cancelled on Wikipedia, it should be archived in it's entirety here on Dieselpunks.org.

Larry said:
I'm brain dead on how to argue for this. Maybe because so much of it was mine. I'm really going to need assistance. :(

It's going to be an uphill fight but I'll help out as best I can. I've been scouring the web looking for references to dieselpunk and trying to tie it in more securely with lowbrow art, etc. It seems that everyone in the lowbrow art community and the dieselpunk community both just took it as a "given"... but that makes it hard to reference. (I also think it's somewhat unfortunate that we have the -punk moniker, because no matter what we do, because of that we're going to always be thought of as steampunk's poor stepchild.
At least it wasn't speedily deleted.

What happens now is that page will stay up for a time (I think it's 30 days, but I could be wrong. Or seven days if nobody makes any objections, iirc.); anyone is open to go into that page and post, make an argument for or against, and vote to keep or delete. (Or merge with another article...) At the end of the alotted time, the Wikipedia admins will make a decision based on the consensus of the discussion.
I added some references. Sketchy ones, but I'll take what I can get. That say that RCR has a "punk" sound, and SNZs are "'30's punk." That's close enough to dieselpunk as you're going to find in an article written a decade before the term was invented for it.

It really would be a good project though for a historian to go through archives and connect all the dots, I think.
I'm glad we got time. Maybe we can build our case during it.

I know of another page that still has the disclaimer on it, since early 2009 I think, and they left the disclaimer but also left the page with a link to an explanation. I know that doesn't mean anything but I may look at why they left it and it could be our last stand if needed.

Jonny B. Goode said:
At least it wasn't speedily deleted.
What happens now is that page will stay up for a time (I think it's 30 days, but I could be wrong. Or seven days if nobody makes any objections, iirc.); anyone is open to go into that page and post, make an argument for or against, and vote to keep or delete. (Or merge with another article...) At the end of the alotted time, the Wikipedia admins will make a decision based on the consensus of the discussion.
Suggestion: Why don't we rewrite the page somewhat, so that we move the subculture part toward the bottom of the page, since we're trying to emphasize the art form more?

Update: I just did so. If anyone doesn't like it that way, it can be undone.

Also, I added atompunk to the page, since the two art forms are related and sometimes cross over.
The main reason I did this is to draw attention to the fact that dieselpunk isn't just a bunch of LARPers that got tired of steampunk, which is what most people unfamiliar with the genre automatically assume. By putting the art portion first and making subculture an afterthought, I think we defuse that quite a bit.

I'm also going to move Fashion and Music under Subculture, I think they belong better there than in the art section as they seem more culturally oriented. Like I said though, anything can be undone if someone has a problem with it...

Jonny B. Goode said:
Suggestion: Why don't we rewrite the page somewhat, so that we move the subculture part toward the bottom of the page, since we're trying to emphasize the art form more?
Update: I just did so. If anyone doesn't like it that way, it can be undone. Also, I added atompunk to the page, since the two art forms are related and sometimes cross over.
On the references issue. I've got a friend at work who's mostly steampunk but shares some interest in diesel. He's working on his Masters and he said that "blogs, journals, forums, or other self-published sources" are considered valid in academic circles. I'm going to ask him to find me a source.

Also, this statement, "One of them even relies on a deleted version of the nominated article." I have no idea what that person is referencing to.

I'm cool with your changes Jonny.
Larry said:
On the references issue. I've got a friend at work who's mostly steampunk but shares some interest in diesel. He's working on his Masters and he said that "blogs, journals, forums, or other self-published sources" are considered valid in academic circles. I'm going to ask him to find me a source.

If you could get a source for that, it would be most excellent. Especially for such a field as this, where it has to do with art and most of the relevant information is naturally going to be in journals and such, not in places of academia.

Larry said:
Also, this statement, "One of them even relies on a deleted version of the nominated article." I have no idea what that person is referencing to.

There was a link to Piecraft's earlier Dieselpunk article that was on Wikipedia. One of the first things I noticed and removed, as I figured it would be viewed prejudicially.

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