Dieselpunks

Dieselpunk + Steampunk Culture

This is a companion piece to the "Male Sexuality" thread...  

I thought I would wait for someone to step up and start this thread, as I'm at a loss for what to say that I didn't already say in the other thread.

Does anyone else observe we are returning to femininity? Sometimes it seems we're at a loss for what this means.

Some of us take it to mean a return to 1950s femininity, which (IMO) was a completely artificial construct that more resembled a child than a grown woman.  

And some of us take it to mean that feminism is to be completely discarded... my feeling is that it's an economic and political movement that women brought home. People shouldn't feel compelled to all be the same. This sameness is stifling and it's just... not very sexy :)

What does it mean to be a woman, to you? Do you identify with a model of womanhood that existed prior to the 1950s? Who are your role models, and do you find yourself returning to an older model of womanhood? 

Men, what do you think of all of this? 

Views: 308

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

I know that my wife would love nothing more than to stay at home all day instead of working.

Seriously though, let's consider the question. Are we speaking about femininity from a social perspective, or from the viewpoint of fashion?


Tome Wilson said:
I know that my wife would love nothing more than to stay at home all day instead of working.

Seriously though, let's consider the question. Are we speaking about femininity from a social perspective, or from the viewpoint of fashion?

Either. I suppose the question is... "what IS femininity, and what does it mean to be a woman?". The discussion can include any aspect of this.

There's also the tricky question (which might make some people uncomfortable) of what femininity means as it applies to our relationships with others.
I hate that feminism seems to encourage women to be men in an effort to forge equality between the sexes. As you said, sameness isn't sexy.

At a seminar I attended, the lecturer mentioned that she and her husband had almost separated due to an argument regarding their finances. She owned her own business and earned an impressive wage, and I believe he earned a considerable amount also - so a lack of money wasn't the issue. The issue was that, with such a high earning wife, the husband felt emasculated, that he wasn't able to take care of his family. So, they finally agreed that his wage would be used to pay the mortgage and for food and other NECESSARY items, while her wage would be used for the extras, like movie tickets and travel.

This story stuck with me because of the modern way that the traditional division of labour could be interpreted. So my idea of femininity is being a creator and a nurturer. Creation doesn't have to be children, it can be art, music, or baking, to mention a few. Masculinity is about protection and strength. But most importantly, it's all about choice!


Zora Aisling said:
I hate that feminism seems to encourage women to be men in an effort to forge equality between the sexes. As you said, sameness isn't sexy.

At a seminar I attended, the lecturer mentioned that she and her husband had almost separated due to an argument regarding their finances. She owned her own business and earned an impressive wage, and I believe he earned a considerable amount also - so a lack of money wasn't the issue. The issue was that, with such a high earning wife, the husband felt emasculated, that he wasn't able to take care of his family. So, they finally agreed that his wage would be used to pay the mortgage and for food and other NECESSARY items, while her wage would be used for the extras, like movie tickets and travel.

This story stuck with me because of the modern way that the traditional division of labour could be interpreted. So my idea of femininity is being a creator and a nurturer. Creation doesn't have to be children, it can be art, music, or baking, to mention a few. Masculinity is about protection and strength. But most importantly, it's all about choice!

This arrangement actually makes good financial sense.

There is a book called "The Two Income Trap" that talks about how two income middle class families often get into financial trouble because of splitting things down the middle (each paying half of a fancier lifestyle that neither could afford alone), then being forced into bankruptcy or foreclosure or worse when one partner is laid off or becomes incapacitated. And things just happen sometimes... such as, two parents who have the best of intentions could find that the expecting wife has to go on bed rest.

What the book suggests is that the two people do what they did in your example... living a little more simply (a smaller house instead of a McMansion, for example), rely on one income for the necessities and the other for luxuries, while treating the rest of the income as "backup" and putting it away.

I feel that being creative is a part of my femininity, too.

Another thing...

It sounds dated by today's standards, but to me, part of being feminine (as a single woman) is in not being aggressive with men like some of my female friends can be, and in trying to learn how to be more respectful and honoring. Some women these days are really competitive and try to tear guys down and snark at them.

It's also a matter of being okay "being a girl" as opposed to trying to be one of the guys.
The feminist movement did many great things for women's equality, but a side-effect was that it raised a generation of young women who think that they have to be in control all the time, or else they are not getting their due level of equality. I've met many women who say that they would like their boyfriend/husband to take more "control" of their relationship, and yet they don't even realize that they never relinquish control, making it impossible. The modern woman is torn between what their story books and fantasies say, that they will be taken care of, and what they are taught, to never give that kind of control over to a man. That's sad, because they will never really be happy, torn in two like that.

Luckily my wife is one who looked back to the past as an example, and saw that she could still be equal in our marriage, even as she handed over the reins to me. It makes her feel sexy, womanly, and well taken care of at home to have me "handle the business" while she dotes on me a bit, and makes it a nice break from her work, and the responsibilities she has there.

I just make sure to do my share of doting, as well.
I love the idea of being doted on, as you say Deven, but I totally get that personally, I fit into your idea of someone who can't let go of constant control! And INTELLECTUALLY I know that there is a possibility of a balance between having an equal say in a relationship and in work and politics and other aspects of life, and "being a girl", as you say Dreia.

I've never been a tomboy as such, but I've never liked the idea of wearing makeup to work or dressing up except for on special occasions. But after more than a year working on my masters thesis in trackpants and t shirts and never dressing up, I can't wait for my time at the gym to pay off so I can fit my pretty skirts and dresses that were once only for special occasions, but which I now think I will wear more often! And I'm looking forward to getting a job so I can pay for dressmaking lessons to make my own (steam- and dieselpunk inspired) pretties!


Zora Aisling said:
I love the idea of being doted on, as you say Deven, but I totally get that personally, I fit into your idea of someone who can't let go of constant control! And INTELLECTUALLY I know that there is a possibility of a balance between having an equal say in a relationship and in work and politics and other aspects of life, and "being a girl", as you say Dreia.

I've never been a tomboy as such, but I've never liked the idea of wearing makeup to work or dressing up except for on special occasions. But after more than a year working on my masters thesis in trackpants and t shirts and never dressing up, I can't wait for my time at the gym to pay off so I can fit my pretty skirts and dresses that were once only for special occasions, but which I now think I will wear more often! And I'm looking forward to getting a job so I can pay for dressmaking lessons to make my own (steam- and dieselpunk inspired) pretties!

I totally want to be a career girl, too. It's a question of the right career (I'm a graphic arts major - and truthfully, I have no desire to do anything else).

I'm relieved to no longer be working in health care, though, and to be in school at the moment - hard to feel terribly cute in scrubs.

Giving up control has been an amazing experience for me. I am not so quick to argue anymore, to correct people. One result is that I have a lot more energy for myself. I get along better with people but surprisingly enough, find that things go my way more without even intending it be so... it's like I've placed myself in alignment with the universe. I realize that sounds kind of strange to say.

I've also learned that I have to honor my sensitivity, not try to cover it up with bravado. This is a scary thing to do, because it means being vulnerable, but I actually feel stronger.

I've learned that I have to dote on myself otherwise the wait for someone to come along for mutual doting, will be a dreary patch of life. At this age (36) it is an absolute requirement that I enjoy my life as it is otherwise I won't be happy. Anyway, if I am an unhappy person, I don't have much to offer anyone, anyway.

One thing I've observed is that many people want the benefits of the old roles AND the benefits of the new ones, but the two just don't go together. I don't get to be competitive and "one of the guys" and punching my date in the arm, all while wanting him to be protective. I can't throw myself at someone and then complain that I don't feel desired, and I can't be competitive about my job and still expect him to pay for the date. He doesn't get anything out of that and I don't, either. It just doesn't work.
I think there's a total backlash today against "feminism." I'm surprised it took this long, really. But with a generation or two of men being totally mystified as to how to treat a woman, and therefore pretty much treating them with disrespect, and a generation or two of men being "de-masculinized", women once again want to be treated like women. They want to notice the difference, and want men to notice; they want to feel pretty and sexy again. And they're discovering the power in that difference, and are not afraid to use what makes them different to get what they want, and feel sexy doing it. (Which is, I think, why we're seeing a resurgence of the pin-up girl and burlesque.)
i love the ladies of the nineteen 20's granted the fashion may not have been as overtly feminine as it was in the 30's or fourties, but those girls were valkeries! pioneers of womens places. they shunned moms corsets and crinolines, they dressed for comfort and movement, they said no to their uptight victorian/edwardian mothers and grandmothers and struck out to have a good time and to experess themselves. I love the short hair, I love the comfort of clothing from this period. there is a vampy sexyness that is so alive from this era. I look at photos of women from this time and the all look like they have a secret, they all look about to laugh, to cry to really be vibrantly feeling something, those women seem very alive to me
One thing I've observed is that many people want the benefits of the old roles AND the benefits of the new ones, but the two just don't go together. I don't get to be competitive and "one of the guys" and punching my date in the arm, all while wanting him to be protective. I can't throw myself at someone and then complain that I don't feel desired, and I can't be competitive about my job and still expect him to pay for the date. He doesn't get anything out of that and I don't, either. It just doesn't work.

I have had more male freinds then female freinds my whole life, I'm a tomboy when I need to be, I get dirty I work on cars, and I enjoy typically male activities like shoot em up video games. I'm really good at left for dead, anyway, i can hang out with the boys then put on a dress and gussy up look like a pin up girl and go out on the town. I have never had a single boyfreind not pay for the date, not a man ever not protect me if I was in danger, I inspire men to let me walk on their side so that they are the ones nearer the street. my fiance and I kill each other at mortal combat I get insanely competitive at badminton, no one lets the other win, and I still am always treated like a girl. you can do both, I really belive that, because I've lived doing both since my teens
my fiance and I kill each other at mortal combat I get insanely competitive at badminton, no one lets the other win, and I still am always treated like a girl. you can do both, I really belive that, because I've lived doing both since my teens

I think this is awesome, and hypothesise that the reason you can do both is that you compartmentalise. There are times when you are one of the boys, and times where you are definitely not. That's what I would love, but somehow it doesn't seem as clear cut for me as you have it - perhaps I just carry over that attitude of one of the boys when I'm trying to be one of the girls! Maybe I'm not the only one who does this....
thats a really interesting way of looking at it. I don't think I really compartmentalize, or at least not concously, I think the way i do it is not thinking about being one of the boys, or being a girl, I think the key is NOT thinking about your actions as male of female dominated roles. what I do is what i do, I'm a women and I make sure the men I chose to associate know how to treat a lady, but I do everything they do, as competitively as they do it, because to me there is no such thing as girl stuff or guy stuff it's just stuff. granted I pick and have always picked extremely enlightened, real men whose ma ma's raised them right, so maybe it's more about them then it is about me


Zora Aisling said:
my fiance and I kill each other at mortal combat I get insanely competitive at badminton, no one lets the other win, and I still am always treated like a girl. you can do both, I really belive that, because I've lived doing both since my teens

I think this is awesome, and hypothesise that the reason you can do both is that you compartmentalise. There are times when you are one of the boys, and times where you are definitely not. That's what I would love, but somehow it doesn't seem as clear cut for me as you have it - perhaps I just carry over that attitude of one of the boys when I'm trying to be one of the girls! Maybe I'm not the only one who does this....

Reply to Discussion

RSS

Stay in touch

FacebookTwitterRSS

Allied Powers

Diesel powered dieselpunk podcast
Dieselpunk Industries
Seance Media by Tome Wilson
Vnv Nation

© 2019   Created by Tome Wilson.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service