Dieselpunks

Dieselpunk + Steampunk Culture

This is a companion piece to the "Male Sexuality" thread...  

I thought I would wait for someone to step up and start this thread, as I'm at a loss for what to say that I didn't already say in the other thread.

Does anyone else observe we are returning to femininity? Sometimes it seems we're at a loss for what this means.

Some of us take it to mean a return to 1950s femininity, which (IMO) was a completely artificial construct that more resembled a child than a grown woman.  

And some of us take it to mean that feminism is to be completely discarded... my feeling is that it's an economic and political movement that women brought home. People shouldn't feel compelled to all be the same. This sameness is stifling and it's just... not very sexy :)

What does it mean to be a woman, to you? Do you identify with a model of womanhood that existed prior to the 1950s? Who are your role models, and do you find yourself returning to an older model of womanhood? 

Men, what do you think of all of this? 

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I've actually had more male friends than female ones, I've worked in male dominated work, and enjoy a lot of "guy things", but I pretty much do not compartmentalize... I'm the same person wherever I am.

All the same, I feel there are certain dynamics that I don't feel attracted to. I am fine with being in friend space, but not so much "buddy" space. Just my own personal comfort zone. I will tend to beg out when I'm in a group of men who start talking about "the hot chick", and just let the men have their space to be men rather than join in with them, and I don't at all feel the need to do more than look on in amusement when the guys get into one-upmanship and arm-punching. I really really enjoy being different, even when I have a lot of common interests.

I'm also a little old school in how I am in relationships, and I enjoy men who differ from the standard run of generation X and geeky "enlightened" men... but this is because it's the way I am wired, the way in which I'm truest with myself, and it fits my personality... I am a very reserved person and my feminine style is more "cute" than "sexy".

Somehow though, my best friend usually ends up being the vamp. It seems to always work out that way.
All the same, I feel there are certain dynamics that I don't feel attracted to. I am fine with being in friend space, but not so much "buddy" space.
i agree, and maybe thats the key to balencing a mostly male group of freinds, being a freind, keeps you a women being a buddy seems to turn you into a sexless creature or a fella without equipment, I've never allowed that to happen to me.
My wife and I are pretty old-school in this. I bring home the bacon, and she keeps our house a home.

She tells me she finds more fulfillment with our daughter and domestic projects than she did while working outside the home.

While it is tough to bust my hump at multiple jobs to meet our financial goals, it is worth it. We don't have all the luxuries that may be possible with added income, but she feels like a more fulfilled woman, and I feel more like a real man in my role.

We also take our roles as parents very seriously. We felt that she would be working mostly to pay a babysitter, with insufficient financial gains to cover the emotional losses of being an absentee parent.
Let me add my 5 cents.
I happen to work with a bunch of stunning young ladies who sometimes forget about their femininity and become cynical beasts just like us males. Every day I try to protect their femininity, making polite and flattering remarks about their haircut, or dress, or simply "You look great today". Nothing like flirting. Always appreciated.
Probably it would be easier to treat these beauties as brothers-in-arms, but I like women to be women. Even when they spend most of their time at work, stealing quality time from their families / boyfriends / whatever. It's a part of my general vision: those who surround me are first of all humans, not just locked-on-target automatons.
I'm with you, Myke. I've finally found a woman that makes me feel like I'm the king of the house, and not only have I never been happier, as it makes me feel like a MAN in the old fashion sense of the word, but she says that she's never bee nhappier, as I act accordingly, taking care of her, from the big picture of security, on down to openning doors and walking on the traffic-side of the walkway.

Myke DeArden said:
My wife and I are pretty old-school in this. I bring home the bacon, and she keeps our house a home.

She tells me she finds more fulfillment with our daughter and domestic projects than she did while working outside the home.

While it is tough to bust my hump at multiple jobs to meet our financial goals, it is worth it. We don't have all the luxuries that may be possible with added income, but she feels like a more fulfilled woman, and I feel more like a real man in my role.

We also take our roles as parents very seriously. We felt that she would be working mostly to pay a babysitter, with insufficient financial gains to cover the emotional losses of being an absentee parent.
Hmmm, let's see what the tranny can bring to this conversation.

I guess my my discussion will be very basic: every person, regardless of gender, is a palate o fmixed masculinity and femininity. The more you have of one, the more you identify with one side of the spectrum. For instance, I am more feminine than masculine and so I identify as a feminine entity. This is not necessarily to say that if your balance tips into the favor of one side of the spectrum you should automatically identify with it, but rather it is something to consider introspectively.

I, personally, don't see an issue with the woman in a heterosexual household being the major source of income if the man doesn't mind focusing his attention on other things.
Of course, Asturias, it's all individual. The whole point is choice... nobody has to be one way or the other. We have options now.

I totally appreciate the stay-at-home model and feel it is completely viable. It often doesn't make sense for both people to work unless there is enough money between them to hire help. If you're going to be spending all of the money on child care, work clothing and gasoline, but do not get any personal fulfillment out of your job, what was the point of having both partners work?

But the point is to have options.

It's easy to think of these things because I do not have children and barring next to ideal conditions, may never have them. Children would change the entire equation to a matter of pragmatics as opposed to personal ideals.

As much as I feel "traditionally female", I know that I would be miserable as a stay-at-home parent because I really enjoy my field, and have my own dreams for myself in this field (not to mention, some degree of pragmatism... I already have student loans to think about, and three more years of education to look forward to - assuming I don't go on to get a Master's degree). I could only "stay at home" if I were working out of my house, as I'd feel very unfulfilled if I didn't pursue my craft, and ultimately resent not being able to pursue it - as I have in the past. Also, I feel a sense of reward from having paying clients that I don't feel just from doing my work "for myself".


If I had to work just to drudge away, though - I'd highly resent that... and have, in the past.

My feminine model is more the Victorian artist/scholar (think Beatrix Potter, for example) or the 20s career girl, as opposed to what many professional women choose to be, which is an ersatz man. I think of myself as a woman with a career, not a career woman. I suppose one of the differences is that I'm in it because it's an end to itself, not because I've planned my life around being able to financially support one or more human beings other than myself and not because I have any ambition beyond simply just doing what I enjoy doing.
My sense of success is self-determined (just seeing my work *out there* makes me happy), not based upon whether or not I ever head my own firm.

Fortunately, in graphics I am practically expected to be a little odd, so I can shun the boxy suits if I wish and dress more girly.

At the same time, though, at this point in my life... I can't afford to be "the man" in the relationship if "the man" means I pay all of the bills. And that is a matter of pure pragmatics.
In the end for me it's all a matter of respect...giving it and getting it.

For centuries men had a fundamental lack of respect for women in many, many cultures. Women were at best resources or commodities...at worst liabilities and resource-sinks. Thanks to the efforts of many brave women and men, including the feminists but also including so many suffregettes of the steam age and pioneers of the diesel age, they fought for and for the most part have earned that respect.

Unfortunately the feminist movement, like so many sociopolitical movements of the era, "threw out the baby with the bathwater" as it were. It wasn't enough to demand respect, there was that push into disrespect for men. Jonny really distilled it with the "masculinization" of women and "emasculation" of men. Some of the more extremist elements even found all men inherently guilty of some original sin. The worst even declared all sex to be rape. My father recalled with anger getting called a "pig" for opening doors or other old fashioned acts of politeness.

There were also cases of disrespect by some women for other women who chose NOT to live the feminist life. Femininity in dress was a bad thing in some circles. Powerful women who quit to raise a family were in some cases treated as traitors to their gender.

A nice thing about our emerging post-feminist culture is, as Dreia pointed out, that ability to choose. Career. home, part-time...it's a decision you make, not anyone else. And femininity? A woman now has a choice of being taken seriously on the job without needing a defeminising pantsuit and power hair. Hell, it's a time when a vice presidential candidate can wear red pumps and lipstick to a debate and be taken seriously (or at least be not taken seriously based on the issues rather than the wardrobe).

Women are becoming free to be women by their own measure. And to me that's damned sexy.
Wow, there's a whole thread on this. And I'm not the only transwoman here (WTF...whoo-hoo!). Now where to start...

OK, I've got to be most masculine women ever to be cursed with a penis. Yeah some go into Special Forces and such, but they're trying to compensate. Not me: I was mercifully spared a traditional girlhood. Being a boy was more fun than I ever could have had as a girl. I like guns, cars, violence, camping in the woods. So I say with all honestly I am both contemptuous and hostile towards femininity...but I dress femininely (love heels, love em ,love em, love em!) and I do the most feminine and girly things when I'm not paying attention and it's liberating and infuriating at the same time.

I don't begrudge feminine women, but I kinda stand back with an eyebrow in the air. I like men, I have a boyfriend. But under no circumstances do I want him to 'protect me.' One, I don't wanna date someone I couldn't take in a fight. Two, I'd feel I wasn't pulling my weight. I watch his back, he watches mine. Fair's fair and all. That whole 'friendship zone' thing I so loathed in high school is EXACTLY my dating pool. I want to be my boyfriend's best friend, and not just because we're sleeping together. I was never raised on the notion of a knight in shining armor or the handsome prince. Honestly I figured out what I wanted when I realised I wanted Crono to end up with his best friend Lucca in Chrono Trigger, instead of the princess. I didn't understand that Lucca the character I most identified with, but I did know that whatever partner I had in life, I wanted them to be my friend before we shared the same bed.

And all of this would make you think I'm a career girl. Nothing could be further from the truth; I hate working, the only high I get from working is the paycheck. I wanna be a stay-at-home mom. Not a stay at home wife, again, weight pulling, but I want to have kids and raise them. And since the fates gave me testicles instead of a womb, I wonder if it will ever happen at all. Hell, I spent 10 years of agonizing torment trying to make the guy thing work for the sole reason of having kids. I wanna write the great book, but my heart has always been set on being a mom. Not sure what that means.
Ah geez, I killed the thread!. :C
I am really glad to see this thread taking off the way it has.

In my blog concerning a work of dieselpunk art I made a statement that the artwork had a "strong Feminist statement" that "to me adds a strong punk element."
http://dieselpunk44.blogspot.com/2010/09/dieselpunk-art.html

How comes?

Charlotte Wolery said:
Ah geez, I killed the thread!. :C

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