Dieselpunk + Steampunk Culture

This is a cross posting from the Dieselpunk group.

It seems to me that we need a good article dedicated to dieselpunk in
Wikipedia. Currently if you search the keyword "dieselpunk" in Wiki you
just get it as a derivative in the article "Cyberpunk derivatives:"

"Initially proposed as a genre by the creators of the role-playing game
Children of the Sun,[15] dieselpunk refers to fiction inspired by
mid-century pulp and set in a world similar to steampunk though
specifically characterized by the rise of petroleum power and
technocratic perception, incorporating neo-noir elements and sharing
themes more with cyberpunk than steampunk.[16] Though the notability of
dieselpunk as a genre is not entirely uncontested, installments ranging
from the retro-futuristic film Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow to
the 2009 animation film 9 have been suggested as quintessential works of
dieselpunk fiction.[17][18] Video game titles in the dieselpunk genre
range from Activision's Return to Castle Wolfenstein to Sega's Valkyria

Personally, I think that sucks. So I'm trying to put write a Wiki
article just for Dieselpunk. I was wondering if anyone here would be
willing to lend a hand?

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Comment by Larry on May 19, 2010 at 3:19pm
In the words of Rod Serling, "Submitted for your approval" I give you my Wikipedia dieselpunk page. Or more precisely a sub-page from User Page. One of their recommendations is to create a User Page and a sub-page to practice with before submitting a full-blown article.

What I need is for everyone on the forum to look it over and submit recommendations. Here's some very important details to look for:
1) Grammar and spelling
2) Factual inaccuracies. (such as dates, for examples)
3) Large areas where there are no references. If you have a reference please provide it.
4) Better references. Even if I have a reference if you have a better I would like to see it.

A special word about references. Dieselpunk has a reputation for not being "notable." So if you have them please, they would be very helpful in getting it approved.

Be aware that I may not make all changes recommended. Don't feel bad if I don't accept yours. It's just that I have to make the final decision what to submit. If it's accepted by the Wiki staff if you still feel strong enough about your recommendation then you can log onto Wiki and edit it just like anyone else.

You will see a generic image in the upper right. Stefan has been so kind as to, per my request, agree to create specific for the page an image to go there. We all know the high quality of his work so that promises to be great and I very much am in his debt for doing that.

Once I've gotten feedback and made some more adjustments then I'll send it to the Wiki staff for, hopefully, approval.
Comment by Larry on May 12, 2010 at 7:58pm
Retro-futurism does have it's own article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro_future

Ottens and Piecraft in their discussions point out the similarities between the sense of optimism that Ottensian dieselpunk tends to exhibit and the optimism found in retro-futurism, which I'll note in my article. Plus, consider the sci-fi pulp fiction such as Captain Future and Amazing Stories, not to mention Buck Rogers, of the diesel era.

All of that being said I've pretty much decided to not include a section dedicated to retro-future it in the article.
Comment by Athenaprime on May 12, 2010 at 11:11am
Larry, I would think retro-futurism might merit its own separate entry. When I hear "retro-futurism" I tend to include atomicpunk in there, as well as Space 1889 and The Jetsons. Although if someone more versed would be able to confirm, there does seem to be an element of retro-futurism within Dieselpunk, if nothing else, the sense of a vision for the future that the era holds.

As for the fashion question...I'll toddle on over there and add my two bits. :)

Comment by Larry on May 11, 2010 at 1:07pm
Update on progress. I'm nearing completing the bulk of the article. But I need help. I need help on help on two features of the Wiki page.

This first one, which I cross posted this on the Fashion Group. How to define dieselpunk fashion. Gearing Up http://dieselpunk.net/ is the only source I know of. Any other ideas?

The second, should I include a section on Retro-futurism in my Wiki article?
Comment by Larry on May 9, 2010 at 8:00pm
I'm cross posting this from the Storytellers group since the feedback I get will help in writing the article.
Comment by Larry on May 5, 2010 at 10:37pm
@Athenaprime, Good advice. I thought about literature and then I forgot to include it. Plus, you're absolutely right on everything else as well. Thanks.

Also, I want you and others to double check me on my grammar. If something can be written better feel free to tell me your thoughts.

Everyone, I want this to be written in such a way that there's no way they can turn us down. Keep the feedback coming.
Comment by Athenaprime on May 5, 2010 at 10:18pm
Add in a literature section, too. Scott Westerfeld's latest might end up being just as much diesel as it is steam.

Also, it needs to be said that Dieselpunk isn't historical re-creation or re-enactment, although it can encompass that. Just as steampunk isn't neo-Victorianism or Victorian re-enactment. There's an expression of modern ideas and ideals interpreted through the lens of the sensibilities of the era.
Comment by Larry on May 5, 2010 at 9:09pm
Being that this project is a work in progress I plan to post segments for feedback as I write them. Ultimately my goal is a product that the majority here can agree on though I know that there will be some who will not agree with everything written.

As I write this I'm also educating myself with the Wiki policies on posting material so as to increase the odds of our success. I'm also being careful to locate references to include.

Here's a first draft of part of the project:
This article is about the genres of fiction and associated sub-culture.

Dieselpunk is a postmodern genre of art as well as a budding subculture that combines the aesthetics of the Interbellum Period through World War II and ending circa 1950 (a range of time often referred to as the “diesel era” by the dieselpunk community) with contemporary creations. The term “dieselpunk” was first coined in 2001 by the game designer Lewis Pollak, creator of the game “Children of the Sun,” as a “darker, dirtier side of steampunk” though the term is now used far beyond the game to apply to this relatively new genre and subculture.

1 The Diesel Era and Decodance
2 Two Flavors of Dieselpunk
3 Dieselpunk Music
4 Dieselpunk Cinema
5 Dieselpunk Animation
6 Dieselpunk Fashion
7 Dieselpunk Art
8 Online Community
9 Notes
10 References
11 External links
Comment by Athenaprime on May 2, 2010 at 4:42pm
RPM Orchestra,
I'd also say that the atomic age is pretty much the end of the diesel age. My own impressions (and contributions) to dieselpunk zeitgeist are that of the legacies of steam and pulp after the Empires began to crumble. By the atomic age, America was an empire of its own, and showing the very first signs of that decay in the corners.

Currently, there's a small discussion about the page Larry linked to. Links to the Gatehouse Gazette are absent, but it's nice to see dieselpunks.org getting some love.

Speaking from a literature perspective, very little will be marketed specifically as "dieselpunk" until "dieselpunk" slips further into the collective consciousness as something independent of "steampunk." Marketing types in the publishing industry will slap a hot label on anything, whether it merits the label or not.

I do not know the arcana of wiki, but it seems that we ought to be able to edit the article, and maybe that's the secret--the more users that add to the article, the more it's crowdsourcing street-cred increases.
Comment by Tome Wilson on May 2, 2010 at 1:42pm
I'm in touch with Piecraft, but I don't think you'll get him to change his opinion or description. What's said is said, and it's up to us to represent the other side that Piecraft is fervently against.

As for RPM Orchestra's notes, I agree wholeheartedly.

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